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[Jeff]

So it's the late 90's (80's as well, but I was still riding a bicycle in grade school and Jr. High), and every performance guru who had the extra cash to fork up and pay for synthetic oil will SWEAR BY Mobil-1, which time after time proved to be one of the few and only oils that performed.  Mobil-1 was one of the choice in oils, including Formula 1 and NASCAR.  Mobil-1 made its name back then, but today (2008), as corporate cost cuts, mass marketing, and increased costs are apparent, this is no longer the case.

I typically run Redline or Royal Purple in my higher powered cars these days, but they do cost substantially more than the readily off-the-shelf oils.  So in my 99 B5 Avant (basically stock K03 + chip and bolt-on's), I had been running what the social "norm" typically runs: Mobil-1 5w30 (or 0w40 when available), and also because Audi recommends it, though that's not saying much.  A jug of Mobil-1 5w30 can be found at my local Wal-Mart's for about $22 for a 5-quart jug (that's less then $4.50 per quart).  So the general population of car gurus would typically storm the local Wal-Marts for this "good oil", at a fair price. 

I did my "Project 99.9" AEB-to-ATW transplant last year, I put in Mobil-1 as soon as the engine was broken in.  However, I would notice that I would lose a quart of oil every 1500-2000mi or so.  Since my car is originally a 99.0 with the AEB, it did not come with a Low-Oil Level sensor.  Driving the car for 4000miles, I could be as low as 2 quarts (but I always check the dipstick on occasion, but should do it more frequently).   This really started to disturb me, because from my prior experiences, to burn this much oil could usually mean one thing: worn rings or a bad job of honing the block (which I did myself BTW), or something is worn or "broken".  So after a full leak-down test, and every other test in the book, my engine tested and passed with flying colors (180psi+ across all cylinders with +/- 2% margin), plus it is running real strong without any problems but the oil consumption. 

However, the oil consumption problem was not only on my car, but also on my GF's 2000 (ATW).  But her car would have a oil-level sensor, and there are days where she would call me saying she has a nasty oil light on her dash.  After asking around, it was apparent that many others out there are having the same consumption problem.

I wouldn't normally think twice about it, but now this is starting to bug me.  On my B6, which was currently running RP 5w30 and a lot more likely to burn oil or blow-by from the power levels, it wasn't losing much oil at all.  So possibly it's the oil.  On my next oil change, I switched out the Mobil-1 and put in Castrol 5w30 instead.  I also sent in the Mobil-1 oil specimen to Blackstone Labs for a full analysis (results should be back shortly).  But 3000 miles later with the Castrol, and my dipstick is still on the MAX line.  Now this is REALLY starting to make me wonder and about integrity of the Mobil-1 products.  I will be sending in the Castrol once it reaches 5000 miles on the next change, and will be posting the results (though I can pretty much predict it).  Oil consumption on my GF's car was reduced as well, as the Mobil-1 was flushed out in favor of Castrol.  Both B5's now idle and drive MUCH smoother and quieter, especially at part throttle.  The lifter noise on the GF's car (140k) was drastically reduced as well.

But now that I think back... and for those of you who have been around...  About 10 years ago, the whole concept of "Oil Sludge" almost DID NOT exist.  But today, almost every car manufacturer has made some kind of issue about "Oil Sludge".  Even the older B5's (which has been around since 96-97) did not have "Sludge" issues, until the last few years.  Now this really makes you think: it must be something in the oil, AS WELL AS these new religious oil change rituals instated by the car manufacturers: "10k Oil Change" or "the car that doesn't need to change oil for a LONG time".  Let's get real here.  Though technology has progressed through the years, and engines become more efficient in making more power: they still have pistons, rings, bearings, seals, and everything else cars had decades ago, and these components need proper lubrication!  There is no such thing as a "magic engine" that doesn't need an oil change for a year.  This is one of the primary reasons that lead to oil sludge... then comes the formulation of oils.

So I did some more digging around on Mobil-1 (since it's what's causing the consumption issues), and as many should know this, Mobil-1 changed out their "Tri-Synthetic" formula in early 2000's, to their new formula.  This is when things started going south--as Mobil-1 because more readily available, mass-marketed to retailers such as Costco, Sam's Club, Wal-Mart, etc (since they have already made their name in the 80's and 90's).  In mid-2000, Mobil-1 changed out their entire line of oils, also known as "SuperSyn", and also introduced their MIRACLE "Extended Performance" oil that can last as long as 25,000 miles before needing change to satisfy the needs of car manufacturers. 

There is also the regular Mobil-1 oil, and then there is also the "Diesel" formula.  Quite honestly, if there is still any Kosher Mobil-1 oil out there, that would be the Diesel formula--for this formula is most likely to resemble the older and better formula.  The newer junk would simply vaporize inside a diesel engine in a matter of weeks.  Last time I checked, diesel and petrol engines used the same oils...but that's not the case for Mobil-1--a Diesel formula had to be developed or named to preserve the older stuff in order of cutting costs.  And after more digging around, the new "SuperSyn" formula by Mobil-1 has a much lower concentration of esters, which was replaced by cheaper and more cost-effective polymers.  Esters are the primary building blocks of synthetic oil that give them their distinctive properties.  Since I am no chemist, I won't be able to get down into the chemical composition details.  But one that's certain, much of the esters found inside the Mobil-1 oils have been stripped out (due to the high costs), and replaced with regular polymers.  Polymers are what give the oils its multi-viscosity properties.  They polymer strands expand when the oil is hot, thus increasing flow viscosity (5 weight when cold, 30 weight when hot in a 5w30), but the actual base oil is what is protecting your engine from metal-to-metal contact, and not the polymers.  The Mobil-1 found today is basically a bottle of diluted oil, lacking many of the properties of a true synthetic oil.  As a result, the flash point of the oil is substantially lower, meaning it is much more likely to burn and vaporize at lower temperatures.  As a result, the new Mobil-1 oil will burn MUCH faster than other brands, or even conventional "dino oil".  I will confirm this once the Blackstone lab reports are in.

But even before my reports come in, switching out the Mobil-1 in favor or Castrol (or other brands) has made a noticeable difference in the way the engine runs (quieter, smoother), and literally stopped my excessive oil consumption problem that has been worrying me for quite some time. 

I advise all of you guys who swear by Mobil-1 (either because it's cheap/available, or you think it works "best"), to think again and start exploring other options.  Audi/VW may recommend Mobil-1, and it's "approved".... but Audi/VW is also the same company that's been having 1.8T engines dropping like flies from oil sludge FWIW.  

Some other oils out there to consider:

Castrol Syntec (Available in 0w30, 5w30, 10w30, 5w40*, 10w40)
Valvoline Synpower (Available in 5w30, 10w30, 5w40*, etc)
AMSOIL (Available in 0w30, 5w30, 10w30, 5w40*, 10w40)
Royal Purple (Available in 5w30, 10w30, 0w40*, 5w40*, 10w40)
Redline (Available in 0w30, 0w40*, 5w30, 5w40*, 10w30, 10w40)

* = Some of these oils meet or exceeds European specs ACEA A3/B3-04/B4/C3 and/or ACEA A2-96 and A3-02 warranty requirements, including VW 502.00/505.00/503.01.  Though it will not hurt your car if your oil doesn't meet these requirements, these specs will make you sleep better at night.   


Now awaiting the Mobil-1 test results, and one more oil change on the Castrol Syntec so I can send that in to be analyzed as well.  Stay tuned!

[Nathan18T]

I used to use Mobil1 0w40 for every oil change at 5K miles till my car hit 25K miles. I sent my oil sample to Blackstone for fun, I don't understand the results and stuff but the summary said it was good. 

Right now, I'm using Royal Purple 5w30. When my car hits 50k miles, I'll send a sample to Blackstone to see how it goes. The only difference that I noticed between the two, was that RP does not seem as dark when after 5k miles. And my car drives smoother but that is probably in my head. 

On the VWvortex community, lot of people likes Elf 5w40. And it is pretty cheap too, 3 packs of 5 liter containers for like $90 bucks+shipping.  So I think I'll give that a try after I hit 50k miles on my car.

[CO AVANT]

Good post Jeff.  One up Sir.  I posted something along these lines on AZ over 6 months ago about the Mobil 1.  Had a lot of haters posting (of course  ).  Will never use Mobile 1 again.  Now only use Motul 300V.  My Blackstone lab results came back very well with the 300V 5W40. 

[Randy@Autobahn]

Excellent info Jeff!

I have hated Mobil-1 for years!  I was aware of the change years ago and set out to find a replacement that I can put in my customers cars and have confidence in.  I found PentoSyn (made by Pentosin) and have never wavered.  My personal cars have not seen anything else since 2004.

It is not as readily available as Castrol or Elf, and I buy it from my main supply warehouse here in Denver.  I know that it is available from ECS Tuning and other on-line sources.  It meets the VW/Audi standards and is available in 5W30 and 5W40.

Randy

[DrLudlow]

Worse yet, not using scientific terms M1 seems to absorb heat well yet not release it well thus higher avg temps. At high temps >100C M1 oil pressure fades in even street driving. On the track I'd rather use ANY other product even rebranded dino! Its detergent package is good however, engines running M1 are often decently clean

[Jeff]

Worse yet, not using scientific terms M1 seems to absorb heat well yet not release it well thus higher avg temps. At high temps >100C M1 oil pressure fades in even street driving. On the track I'd rather use ANY other product even rebranded dino! Its detergent package is good however, engines running M1 are often decently clean

The detergent keeps everything clean, but they tend to lower the flash point of the oil (thus allowing it to vaporize faster and burn). 

[EBG 1.8T]

Excellent info Jeff!

I have hated Mobil-1 for years!  I was aware of the change years ago and set out to find a replacement that I can put in my customers cars and have confidence in.  I found PentoSyn (made by Pentosin) and have never wavered.  My personal cars have not seen anything else since 2004.

It is not as readily available as Castrol or Elf, and I buy it from my main supply warehouse here in Denver.  I know that it is available from ECS Tuning and other on-line sources.  It meets the VW/Audi standards and is available in 5W30 and 5W40.

Randy

I am not sure if you remember way back i was telling you about my freind that has worked for X?M petroleum company as a chemical engineer since 2001. Since 2002 he hasn't used Mobil 1 in his own vehicles since they changed the formulation to the supersyn formula. He doesn't work in the formulation group, but on a testing team.  He had recommended Elf (now Total), Castrol and the Pentosin that you used to use in my car. He has done the testing of may last 4 samples of elf, pentosin and currently has sample of the Castrol synthetic  that the dealership here used (i know, shouldn't have gone there, but i was in a pinch). Once i get the new results of the Castrol i will try to post them all up. The comparison might help someone.

[vernonsheehan]

Guys, I have a 2000 S4 with 136,500 miles on it.  At 25,000 miles I put the APR chip and K&N filter in.  At 80,000 I upgraded turbos KO3-KO4, AWE intercoolers, y pipe, downpipes, RS4 clutch etc.  I don't race the car but, I do beat on it on a regular basis.  I run between Tucson, AZ (desert dust & sand, 100+ temps and Vail, CO 8,000 feet up and cold) on a regular basis.  So I’m running hard for 11 hours straight through. If you’ve ever been in a red dust storm on The Navaho Reservation you understand bad ju ju.  I've used Mobil-1, 0w-40 since the break-in oil was pulled out.  Change oil & Audi filter every 7,000 miles.  I've never had an oil test, but then I've never had any oil related problems.  I just go by the seat of my 62 year old pants.  Vern

[Jeff]

Guys, I have a 2000 S4 with 136,500 miles on it.  At 25,000 miles I put the APR chip and K&N filter in.  At 80,000 I upgraded turbos KO3-KO4, AWE intercoolers, y pipe, downpipes, RS4 clutch etc.  I don't race the car but, I do beat on it on a regular basis.  I run between Tucson, AZ (desert dust & sand, 100+ temps and Vail, CO 8,000 feet up and cold) on a regular basis.  So I’m running hard for 11 hours straight through. If you’ve ever been in a red dust storm on The Navaho Reservation you understand bad ju ju.  I've used Mobil-1, 0w-40 since the break-in oil was pulled out.  Change oil & Audi filter every 7,000 miles.  I've never had an oil test, but then I've never had any oil related problems.  I just go by the seat of my 62 year old pants.  Vern

The Mobil-1 should give you any "problems" other than a consumption problem.  Do you check your oil level on a regular basis?  You can lose up to almost 2+ quarts before your car will throw a "Low Oil Level" light, so be sure you check that regularly.

[niponki]

Very interesting post, I would like to know more.  Did you ever get your results from the oil lab?  Thanks!

[aaronz]

Just to add to this, I recently started doing my own oil changes and used the 0W-40 mix (M1), now I am getting a rattle on start up (sounds like it could be the Cam Chain) and a intermitent rough idle (sometimes smooth, sometimes rough). I plan on going with the Pentosin 5W-40 to see if it resolves the issue.

[CO AVANT]

After running the car for a minute, shut it off and open the oil cap to ensure oil film is coating the plastic cam covers.  If not you might not be getting enough oil pressure which is causing a lack of oil at the cam tensioner which can result in a noisy cam tensioner.  An oil pressure test might be in order.  Very simple to test and you can pick up a gauge kit at your local Napa autoparts store or similar...

[aaronz]

After running the car for a minute, shut it off and open the oil cap to ensure oil film is coating the plastic cam covers.  If not you might not be getting enough oil pressure which is causing a lack of oil at the cam tensioner which can result in a noisy cam tensioner.  An oil pressure test might be in order.  Very simple to test and you can pick up a gauge kit at your local Napa autoparts store or similar...

Does this apply even if my issue is just on cold start ups? And I assume if I go to NAPA they will know what they heck I need?

[CO AVANT]

The kit has a ton of fittings in it.  The one you need will be in there.  PM me if you need a procedure on how to test.  If your issue is only on cold startups my bet is that you are fine though.

[aaronz]

Sorry guys busy at the office: Got around to changing the oil out to Pentosin this past Tuesday. The start clank/rattle is still there but not as often and only when temps seem to below 50 degrees and the car is cold. I also did the plugs. I figure it might take a week or so for the noise to go away so I will still give it some time. My idle is still rough “sometimes” (not very noticeable to anyone but me most of the time) but is still present. I suspect I am missing something and the idle is no longer in relation to the oil I was using. Anyways I have a video on my blackberry but can’t figure out for the life of me how to get it to youtube (and I am a geek of sorts). I have tried the OTA uploader from my phone but it always errors out. Anyone want me to email the .3gp file and put it in a format I can put on youtube?

Jeff any results back from your M1 oil test that you sent out?

[bananas]

Anecdote: my local dealership quit carrying Mobil-1 recently in favor of Castrol

[bbboy]

I used Castrol 5W40, had engine tick, switched to Lubro Moly 5W40, after 2k tick almost stopped when engine was hot. Now, I have German Castrol (0W30), when I put it in, it significantly quieted my lifers. So, I still was not happy and extracted 0.5 liters of oil and replaced it with marvel Mystery Oil (half a liter), now my car is silent when hot, tick is still there when cold. Will see in April when I am ready for oil change, I hope to kill the lifter noise on cold starts...

And the car is only about 60k.